keith olbermann's special comment on prop 8
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
Ironically, this is one of the most popular Bible verses to be read at Christian weddings, including my friend's:
1 Corinthians 13
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
Hypocritical motherfuckers.
posted by Matt at 9:18 PM
26 Comments:
obermann's such an ass.
Fuck the Mormans, and fuck anyone who believes there should be second class citizens. When judgement day comes, they will burn in hell.
The funniest part is that it says faith is one of the three things remaining - not religion. And religion is what dictates we don't get the same rights...not their belief in God.
The verse(s) you quote are so simple but so grossly misunderstood by the masses. This is where the hypocracy comes in. However, "judge not lest ye be judged." We are all less than perfect and are still learning. It would be better to help our fellows out of the quagmire rather than pushing them into it and downing them in the mess. It does say that the meek shall inherit the Earth, so does this mean that there is a just reward awaiting the rest? - Volker
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lee-stranahan/four-lessons-gay-marriage_b_142469.html
You're awesome, Matt. Pure and simple.
Thank you, Matt. I don't have cable, so I've never seen Olbermann's show. His passion was strong. His words moved me.
Dear Matt,
I mean no disrespect whatsoever but you do not understand the meaning of this verse. It speaks of the 'God' kind of love- something somewhat alien to non Faith-led readers.
When it says 'love', it means love in the Biblical context. It means to love and care for your fellow human-being, yes; but first and unequivocally it means to love God and His instruction above all else.
In the Biblical context, love has little to do with a warm and benevolant feeling toward another that we humans equate to love. That is incomplete.
It is the sort of love that can make unreasonable, and indeed, frightening demands on a human soul without need for a reason. Jacob(Genesis), out of this 'love', that is: obedience through the 'Fear of God', took a sacrificial knife to the 'throat' of his son. Just as a test of his love for God. I am rusty now, but I wish I could provide you with more examples and explanations.
It is a principle that expects and requires of one to sacrifice or forsake absolutely everything in his earthly existance, including the way he thinks, to the high goal of serving God.
I have invested alot of time in studying scripture and understanding the mind of God. This love is nothing less than 'the Fear of God'. That's what this word is about.
This is the only love that is of value to God. The Bible is clear on this, particularly the Gospels. Love by any other definition is in God's eyes irrelevant and of little worth.
Having been one of the Church folk myself, I hate to see this hateful devide persisting between gays and the Church. But unfortunately to this I don't see an end.
--M
I'm sorry, "M", but you're entirely incorrect in your final conclusion. The passages Matt selected do discuss a greater Love, and they do discuss the love of God, but taken in the greater context of the Bible, "love thy neighbor," "do unto others," and the countless other mentions in the Bible to loving your fellow man, this is all the same. That is the great thing about love. It is the truly awe-inspiring thing about love that it is the same, and is the quintessential expression of the divine in all of us. This is the kind of misunderstanding of "Love" that has caused this catastrophe and the destruction of many churches. I feel very sad for anyone who believes that the love you should show God is not the same love you should show your fellow man. Do not confuse faith and love; believing in that which has no proof is not the same as showing compassion, forgiveness, and concern for others, just as God does for us.
Andrew
Andrew, you've expressed the truth in a nutshell. To love God but not your fellow man would amount to hypocracy such as in the old expression, "do as I say not as I do!" (just more hypocracy). - Volker
was just thinking of forwarding the URL of this message to you, as some people will just blindly follow the spoken word descending on them from their local church' pulpit. These words are told in a way they could have been told in any church, any sunday . . .
sadly we did not get them before 11-04, but we sure will need them next time . . .
here is the youtube URL as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVUecPhQPqY
do copy it to as many other websites/blogs as possible . . .
channel your anger in a positive way... focus on what needs to happen next - everything worth fighting for takes determination, time, some losses and setbacks, but mostly commitment to a purpose.
focus on the issue, not on religion. These are beliefs that are near and dear to so many people and clouds their rational judgements.
so arguing against religios positions is not likely to be a winning strategy. look at more objective, legal measures - articulate how, despite all the progress we have made, there are still too many doors closed, opportunities restricted, rights limited... that is the argument, the basis of our nation, the equality of people, the granting of rights, the ability to pursue life, liberty and happiness...
and remember, something worth fighting for takes time, and personal effort and money.
you can make a difference, one person at a time.
That piece made me tear up.
yikes,
They have not love, they know not love.
Onanite
I do like when he yells and flips shit at people, but who knew he could do the impassioned emotion thing too?
Andrew,
What I am saying is that God's love, in the Biblical and correct context goes beyond 'you shall love your neighbour'.
Jesus, God incarnate, says that if anybody- particularly His followers, does not 'hate' the members of his family, he is not worthy of Christ. Simplified, that means that if an individual chooses to honour family or loved-ones above God and His instruction, he is in sin. Read from the gospel of Luke, chapter 14 verses 25-27. It's alot more brutal than the way I say it.
Thats the sort of love God expects from His own. That means sometimes taking discissions that could serious compromise the safety and physical well-being of your most loved-ones in order to be obedient to God, your FIRST love. To define love as anything else is to disregard God, its true source, and His Law.
--M
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/cca5e8a78a/protect-marriage-protect-children-prohibit-divorce-from-jonathan-smith
hey matt, here's my take on what's next...
http://myveryrandomthoughts.blogspot.com/2008/11/whats-next-after-prop-8.html
Please note that the Biblically correct word in that passage(Luke14:25-27) does not exist in English. Jesus is not demanding animosity and ill-intent toward people we care about because that would contradict everything He taught.
'hate' is only to denote the degree of affecion. He just expects you to love Him more than anybody else, including yourself.
--M
~M
Why are you quoting the bible? The bible was written by man, not God.
God is a myth. In America, you have the right to believe in the myth. In fact, it gives many humans purpose. So be it.
But don't hate on others. Don't believe others must believe in the myth. They don't.
As a Christian, a devoted follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, and an openly gay man who belongs to an affirming, progressive church that has been wonderful in working for LGBT equality, I gotta say that this is a great passage for us to read. M, you may disagree with my own interpretation, and I do believe that love of God is the most important commandment in the Bible, this particular passage, in the context of 1st Corinthians, actually makes a lot of sense in our own particular context.
1st Corinthians deals with a number of things, including the exclusionary actions of certain Christians at the Lord's table. 1 Corinthians 13, in fact, follows a discussion about the group of believers, each with a different purpose and ability, but all equally members of the Body of Christ. So in fact, the "love" Paul is talking about is the love shared between believers, a love that is inclusive not exclusionary. We must read this in the complete context of 1st Corinthians to get this.
In that way, the church still has a lot to learn from 1st Corinthians 13 about the inclusion of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered, and queer people.
Zeus, it's fine if you feel that the Bible and the God who has liberated me from the bondage, the God that I experience daily, is a myth. That's cool. I don't pretend to speak for your own experiences (or lack thereof).
But this kind of thinking is exactly why the LGBT community fails to articulate its position towards folks who simply don't understand what it means to be queer. We dismiss religious beliefs and the hope that sustains so many as "myths" and "fairy tales", which gives these folks very little reason to listen to us. If we want to make progress, we need to learn to speak honestly and respectfully, and if we come from a faith background, to speak honestly and respectfully in the language of faith.
I believe so strongly in the Bible and in Jesus Christ that it honestly hurts me deeply when I hear gay and lesbian activists deride the very faith that has helped me affirm and understand my own sexual orientation. I know why this is the case, but I just hope we can recognize that the church and LGBT people are not in opposition to each other- LGBT people are the church, and we are all fighting hate and bigotry together.
sorry thatguy,
I was raised christian and I speak very highly of the Jesuits that educated me. They always tought me to be critical and not blindly follow what your friends or neighbours told you was the word of god. That is why I stepped out of the R.C. church, because a faith that preaches me to deny my deepest self and will not bless the most natural and pure feelings I have for others just cannot be right
When did all these religious nutjobs start reading this blog?
OMG, that last comment ... "trig palin"
how f-ed up is that!
There are quite a lot of us "religious nut jobs" who are striving for glbt equality. Try not to generalise in your anger and antipathy towards people of the Christian faith.
But with that sort of invective directed towards us, I prefer to remain anon in this comment.
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